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Boite de vitesse Tutorial et manuel pour réparation des boites vitesse automatique, manuel, robotisée, à convertisseur ,etc

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Vieux 28/07/2015, 12h50   #1
Simple
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Par défaut Electrovalve replacement and software update AL4

I intend to change the two Electrovalves (part 2574.10) within the AL4 Gearbox on my 2003 Citroen C8 2.0 HDi Auto, to the Borg-Warner (part 2574.16). This requires the upgrade of the Gearbox's ECU Firmware (software) to a newer version. I don't know if my current Firmware is compatible with the Borg-Warner solenoids or not.

My current firmware details are:

Supplier: Siemens
PSA Reference: 8200302005
Software Reference: 9654868580
Supplier: 04
System: 92
Application: 08
Version: 1A
Version: 1701
Message System Number: 00

What is the latest firmware for this gearbox and I was told that PSA used to deliver updates to dealers on CD/DVD. I have a Lexia (clone), I know if I have a dealers log-in access I would be able to update all the firmware on my car, but I don't.

How/where can I download the AL4 firmware?

Simple.
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Vieux 28/07/2015, 14h02   #2
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Envoyé par Simple Voir le message
I intend to change the two Electrovalves (part 2574.10) within the AL4 Gearbox on my 2003 Citroen C8 2.0 HDi Auto, to the Borg-Warner (part 2574.16). This requires the upgrade of the Gearbox's ECU Firmware (software) to a newer version. I don't know if my current Firmware is compatible with the Borg-Warner solenoids or not.

My current firmware details are:

Supplier: Siemens
PSA Reference: 8200302005
Software Reference: 9654868580
Supplier: 04
System: 92
Application: 08
Version: 1A
Version: 1701
Message System Number: 00

What is the latest firmware for this gearbox and I was told that PSA used to deliver updates to dealers on CD/DVD. I have a Lexia (clone), I know if I have a dealers log-in access I would be able to update all the firmware on my car, but I don't.

How/where can I download the AL4 firmware?

Simple.
Hello
your firmware is the latest for your AL4 and it's 100% compatible with borgwarner solenoids
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Vieux 28/07/2015, 17h44   #3
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Thank you j-sky,

If I have the latest firmware, then the solenoids in my AL4 may have been replaced.. The fault in my car appears only when cold, after driving 10 minutes, the problem does NOT appear all day after that !! So, what if I swap them 1- Main Pressure Regulation and 2 Converter Pressure the other way round ??...

In 2006 I bought a Chinese made new Fuel Pump to replace the faulty one on my Grand Voyager. It was horrible, it used to cut off during driving and it did not last 2 months. I then bought a used ******* pump which was perfect. The trouble was in the amount of work involved (emptying and dropping the tank).

I know that replacing the Solenoids may be the best option. I have tried resourcing them and got the cheapest (55 Euro for 2) through Aliexpress (China again).. Are they good or should I look somewhere else ???

Do you know of a good cheap source I could order Solenoids from? I am in Ireland and here we avoid the Dealers.

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Vieux 31/07/2015, 08h41   #4
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Hi Simple,

As you know china parts are sometime high quality, but often are poor/bad stuff.

Do you think changing these valves is so easy you would like to do it twice?

Think about the job, good at first try!
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Vieux 31/07/2015, 21h01   #5
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I have reviewed all relevant info regarding this task including personal experiences of people who did it. I don't think it is difficult, but you are right, I would NOT like to do it twice, especially with the time and cost involved.

However, other than the Citroen dealer, I don't know where to buy them from. In fact I suspect that the parts available in the market are ******ly made in China. I have nothing against that except when they are low quality clones. If you check on aliexpress.com you will find that you can buy the Solenoids wrapped in a PSA package with a (made in France) stamped on it !!!

I asked where to get ******* solenoids reasonably priced, but no one answered. Hence, I will take the chance hoping that I get a good quality product..
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Vieux 12/08/2015, 01h06   #6
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Hello mate
You can buy all part for automatic gearbox to:
gearbox parts
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Vieux 18/08/2015, 12h44   #7
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Thanks, but I have already placed an order and waiting for delivery soon.
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Vieux 05/09/2015, 11h51   #8
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I received the two Solenoids I ordered from China, one has marks and scratches as if it was not new, the other has the plastic broken and the connecter pin bent!!! Decided not to risk using them and to return them.

However, I came across a Malaysian site where a couple of users had problems identical to mine, they solved theirs by flushing the oil and over filling by 0.5 liter.

So, whilst I am communicating with another source for the 2574.16, I decided to flush the oil again, but this time I added half a liter more than the level...

Well, I am astounded..!! it has worked.. the gear is no longer failing and I don't need to change the solenoid.
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Vieux 06/09/2015, 10h04   #9
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Strange ... how you check the oil level?
Here's a procedure.
Fichiers attachés
Type de fichier : rar AL4 Transmission.rar (1,09 Mo, 21 affichages)
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Vieux 06/09/2015, 20h17   #10
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Thanks kitty-hawk, I ******ly have that document and few others, including the French manual "RTA - CITROËN C8...pdf", I also watched some YouTube videos.

The way I changed the oil is as follows:
1- Drove the car until operational temperature and parked it in the drive way, Jacked it up and ensured it was horizontal (used spirit level and laser gun).
2- Connected the Lexia device and kept it connected all the time, checked temperature and performed other tasks (preparations, diagnosis, deleted errors and waited) until Gear oil temperature is around 63C degrees.
3- With the Gear Lever in P started engine, inserted a clean dry 5 liter container under the drainage point and opened the drainage nut (If oil level is high, it will spill the excess into the container until it trickles in drops, measure the amount); in my case I got few drops, indicating correct or possibly low level.
4- Stopped engine (with temp at 66C) and removed the plastic insert using Allen key size 8. The oil spilled out until trickled, I started the engine few seconds and I got another gush. Total amount of drained oil was 2.8 Liter of reasonably good oil, since I performed first change 6 months ago.
5- Put back the plastic insert, replaced the drainage nut and filled in 3 Liters of Mobil LT 71141.
6- Started the engine, foot on brake and changed (all) gears very slowly until temperature is around 63C.
7- While Engine is on and gear in Park, opened the drainage nut and released excess oil in new container (got a short spillage then drops). Now oil level is correct.
8- Replaced the drainage nut and added 0.25 Liter of Mobil LT71141.
9- Drove the car under the same conditions few times now (previously, the error was easy to replicate under certain conditions), but the error has not occurred since.

I ******ly took measurements of all activities to ensure I would be in position to analyze the data if need be.

I hope the above may help someone..
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Vieux 06/09/2015, 20h43   #11
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I would like to add that I did consider adding 0.5 liter of oil before and achieve the correct level (in case the oil level was low) before I drop the oil. The problem here is that:
I changed the oil only 6 months ago and the car failed immediately and kept failing, which made me think it was the solenoids.

If I add 0.5 liter of clean oil, it will get mixed with 6 Liters of possibly dirty oil and it would be a waste. While if I add 0.5 liter clean oil to 3 Liters it would be achieve a cleaner mix.

An other point that I have noticed when adding the clean oil, some tiny air bubble are mixed with the oil, they may help to give a fake indication of the correct oil lever especially when they expand by the heat inside. Hence, I advise to overfill by 25 to 50 ml of fresh oil or you can close the nut when the oil becomes a thin trickle and not drops.

Another issue:
I also have a Chevrolet Tahoe which I used to take to some service garages in Dubai, where they change the oil, filters and top up all other fluids.
They once topped up the gear box oil with their own Gear Fluid... I learnt later that this caused foaming, slippage then the clutch said good buy. it cost me 750 Euros.
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Vieux 06/09/2015, 22h19   #12
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Hello again,
I have uploaded two Gearbox fault images recorded by Lexia interface:

1- Temporary fault, Pressure regulation (difference / setting). gearboxfault_1.jpg
This is the regular fault I used to receive, before the oil change. You will notice that this fault at temperature 56C, this is the highest it has happened, it usually happens between 20 - 35 degrees.

2- Temporary fault, One-touch control signal. gearboxfault_2.jpg
This is immediately after the oil change and overfilling by 0.45 Liter. It is the first time for this error to appears. It has happened when I kicked down (accelerator to the floor). I assume this is either because I overfilled or the oil was full of bubbles and has not settled yet. The second day I removed all the excess oil and overfilled by only 250 ml (0.25 liter), and tried to replicate the error but it never occurred again.
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Type de fichier : jpg gearboxfault_1.jpg (92,7 Ko, 14 affichages)
Type de fichier : jpg gearboxfault_2.jpg (89,9 Ko, 14 affichages)
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